My son is too stubborn to learn!

Following because my son is the same! He is more interested in doing his own thing, he won’t even sit with me to look at pictures in books He is more interested in independent play and won’t sit with me at all so very hard to teach anything

My son just likes to do things independently, I still feel like he’s too young to properly understand and I’m not going to sit and pressure him into doing something he clearly has no interest in doing. He’s never failed a development check so I’m not too bothered, he learns things on his own. I never taught him to build with blocks but he picked that up by himself. Half his toys he’s figured out the proper way to play with them and he’s even started to get into his f1 car turn it on and attempt to drive it without us even showing him properly

Your expectations of yourself and him are far too high. He is learning all the time. You're reaching all the time. Take the pressure way way off yourselves. Your son sounds so so normal and on track to me. My twins literally only know roar for dinosaur and they only roar when they want to not when I encourage repetition, and my oldest only meowed like a cat at like 17 months minimum and again it was that one animal. You're doing a great job, and so is your son x

Yeah agree with Mou, stop forcing it, it’ll come in time. I feel like your post has some kind of aggression to it, let your baby be a baby and explore in his own way

@Fay I wouldn’t say she’s being aggressive She is probably frustrated due to see other babies being able to do these things and she’s trying her hardest to try and help her baby learn and feels like it’s just not working It’s really hard as a parent to try your best and it not get anywhere

@Fay where is the aggression in my post? The only negative I have said in this post is that it is so annoying… it’s annoying to keep reading or seeing the milestones my son should have been doing months ago and how it is down to the parents or primary caregiver to encourage them and I feel like I have been doing everything I can and getting absolutely nothing! I feel like clearly I am doing something wrong here because no matter what I do, how hard I try, he just isn’t interested. Either way, I don’t see where my post is coming across as aggressive 🤷🏽‍♀️

It might just be how I’m interpreting it - I just think using the word “stubborn” isn’t right, implying he’s doing it on purpose.

@Mou I know he is learning however I question his comprehension skills. Everything I see in regards to milestones shows he isn’t meeting certain ones and point towards either a speech delay, developmental delay or autism and all say early intervention is key however I don’t see any way to get this looked into and I don’t know how to help him any more than I currently am trying. They say they should know is it 5 words by 18 months? And that you can’t count it if they are unable to link it to where it belongs, which means my son doesn’t know any words at almost 16 months

@Natalya it’s funny because he hasn’t fail any of his checks with the health visitor we have now but his first one was constantly criticising me and pointing out every little thing and telling me if I don’t do x, y, z then he won’t learn properly and essentially that I’m holding him back. I couldn’t imagine if we still saw her now how many health checks he would fail! And he wouldn’t even just fail them, she would feel no way to point the blame in my direction and tell me I haven’t done something well enough and now he is delayed as a result or something similar! She was such a nasty piece of work and I think it has now made me the way I am now where I feel like I’m always to blame for my son not reaching certain milestones.

@Shay I'm sorry but 5 words but 18 months is a complete and utterly bullshit measurement. My 2.5 year old said maybe 2 words by then and she doesn't shut up now. Also she hasn't let me read her a book without wanting to fight the book physically until about 2 weeks ago. I would look at what resource you're referring to for hitting milestones because he sounds completely normal to me. No kids repeat anything you want them to. Judge his communication skills by other means I'd say, like if you go to him and say do you want a cuddle and he lifts his arms up, or mummy gives you a toy and he purs his hand out.

@Shay you won’t get a professional to see you for speech dealt, developmental delay or autism till atleast 2 years of age. My son saw a speech therapist for his swallowing and I mentioned he didn’t know any words and she said that’s fine and normal it only becomes a worry at 2. My best friend is a psychologist and she said they won’t diagnose a child with autism till they’re atleast 2 probably even older. Babies/toddlers learn things in their own time just because one baby is doing something and yours isn’t doesn’t mean it’s a “delay” They’re fine up until they’re 2 then you can start to worry. It’s frustrating and a bit upsetting when your child is doing less than someone else’s but it’s far from annoying, I let my little boy do what he wants he’s happy healthy and he learns things his own way in his own time and that’s all that matters to me. My friends little girl didn’t really speak until she was put into nursery just after she turned 2 then she learned so many different things

My twins are firmly only ever saying hi, and roar (when we say dinosaur)... that's it. Nothing else. Maybe the odd 'ta' if I give them something.

Also, put in a complaint about that nasty HV, she needs stopping because that sounds absolutely awful an experience x

@Shay there is absolutely no inclination that his comprehension and language acquisition is lacking from any of this… and I agree with Mou. You are expecting way too much of both your son AND yourself. At this age, they learn through play and exploration but it is 100% based on their interest, there’s no forcing anything. No judgement as my son is exactly the same in every aspect. I myself work in SEN (additional needs) and can say that hand on heart, your son doesn’t seem to point toward a delay from this. It just sounds like you’ve got somewhat unrealistic expectations based on misinformation you’ve read/been told and trying to force a teaching method that won’t work with such young children. If he’s not saying anything by 18 months then you can ask HV to refer to SALT but some children don’t talk until closer to 2. Anything like ASD is not usually referred for before age 3, unless a very severe complex need. Xx

…(continued) I would suggest taking the pressure off and going back to play based learning that doesn’t force an action, such as to point or make a noise. Just role model as much of it as you can but also don’t panic if he doesn’t seem interested or seems to want to ‘rush’ it/ get to the end. Typical development states that a child can only hold their attention in minutes for their age. I.e 1 min for 1 years old; 2 for 2 years etc. It’s not atypical for your child to be curious about objects and want to play with them and turn pages to work them out etc as their attention just won’t let them focus so intently on q’s you ask or point at. Some kids do but it isn’t the norm. Take a breather and let the both of you enjoy playtime a bit more, take it easy mama (and ignore & complain about the shitty HV you had, that certainly doesn’t help!) xx

@Shay I’d complain about the HV, I have heard some bad stories about some of them especially the older ones that think they know everything! Babies/toddlers reach their milestones at all different ages! Most people’s babies love eating from 6 months of age where as my little boy just screamed at me he only started eating when he was 14 months old and now he tries atleast everything other than soggy foods! It had nothing to do with something I did or didn’t do he was just an awkward eater and it took him longer to work up to the point he felt ready to eat

I’m not trying to force anything, for the animals in the bath (we bath together) I started making the animal sounds and he found them funny and it passed the time which allowed me to get us both washed without issues, I added the names of the animals a little later on and only recently started to ask him questions about the animals while bathing. For reading the books I was told I should encourage pointing and spotting things out and so I figured this was one of many ways to do that. I’m told I need to bring myself to his height and speak clearly so that he can understand what I am saying. When we are out and about I try and spot things and tell him what they are, what noise they make if any etc. these are all things I was told to do at the 12 month check up and the NHS website also says the same thing so I wouldn’t have thought what I was doing was being “forceful” by any means. When he doesn’t want to do whatever I’m trying to get him to do he moves on and I leave him to it🤷🏽‍♀️

As for complaining about the health visitor, I honestly don’t think it would make a bit of difference. I brought some stuff up about it in our 12 month review and I was just told everyone has their way of doing their job and it’s all “advice” so I don’t need to take it on board if I don’t want to

@Shay your OP and comments give a bit of impression that you're not just having fun with your son, it's like you have some black cloud of pressure and worry over all your interactions with him. Of course we know you're not forcing anything but it seems like all this milestone info and HV advice is making you miss just having fun with him knowing he is learning just because, even if it doesn't seem in the way you think it would. Definitely need to go easier on yourself, you're doing an absolute fabulous job x

Okay, I know you might not want to hear this but this is completely developmentally normal and you're absolutely expecting too much. Why does it matter how he wants to play or read books? It's meant to be fun! You aren't his teacher, you're his mama. Time together should be enjoyable, not a lesson. I highly recommend reading more on toddler development, get yourself a good audiobook and brush up on how toddlers brains work and what to expect! I know its hard, but you have to trust the process and put way less pressure on yourself and your baby. Your HV sounds absolutely terrible, please don't listen to her and do your own research!! There's so many great books out there.

@Fay I missed your comment yesterday, no my son is actually stubborn, this has nothing to do with him learning or anything like that, he just has a stubborn personality which even the midwife picked up on when he was born and I was trying to breast feed him. I had to fight with him for days just to get him to latch and then a further week or so for him to take both boobs as he wanted what he wanted and he wanted it NOW! He wouldn’t sleep in the hospital cots and screamed the place down every time he was put down.. many had to come and check what the problem was and agreed he is just a bit stubborn but will get there (well 16 months later, he is exactly the same or worse which was exactly how I was when i was young🤦🏽‍♀️). But no I don’t think he isn’t learning on purpose, I’m saying his personality means he doesn’t want to do anything he don’t want to do.. that’s all

@Mou it’s really funny because I find with this app you can’t win either way! I done a similar post a few months back and I was told I need to encourage him to do a load of things before he would be able to pick things up. How I had to narrate my day with him, go through every little thing that you would usually think was over the top of stupid but in the end they pick it up. This is the reason I listed some of the things I have been doing to try and show that I am encouraging and trying to model certain things which is exactly what mums on here told me to do, however now I’m doing exactly what everyone had told me to do, I’m being told it’s aggressive, forceful and not enjoying my son. I do agree that I feel like I’m either not doing enough for him (which is what people have made me feel) or that I’m failing him somehow… however both our days go about as per usual regardless of my thoughts and feelings

@Phaedra I think I need to do the complete opposite to what you have suggested and read less on toddler development and just enjoy the here and now because I think all the research I have come across is telling me what age the majority of babies do what, when I need to be concerned, exactly what he should and shouldn’t be able to be doing by this point etc. and really and truthfully there is a lot he doesn’t do that these sources say he should be doing so really and truthfully I think it’s time I just stop caring and researching because it’s getting me nowhere and just making me feel like I’m not doing the right thing or that I’m leaving him to fall behind (my son doesn’t point, but then I didn’t know before that’s something they should be doing at a certain stage and he doesn’t point because I don’t point, never taught him to so he never picked it up, hence me actively trying to make sure I do things I don’t usually)

@Shay I mean this in the nicest way possible but it sounds like the books you've got are... kinda rubbish tbh! Or do you mean Google research? Or tiktok because I find the Internet is AWFUL for that. I've got a lovely collection of child psychology and child development books and they would all describe your child as normal because - kids hit milestones at different times, they don't hit every milestone anyway, they have different strengths and weaknesses, lots of toddlers are stubborn and that is also natural! It sounds like you've had your head filled with negative stuff that isn't even true. I did the same when my LO was littler and I just stopped using the Internet to find stuff out. My daughter is also "stubborn" and was since birth too, midwife described her that way, I personally prefer to reframe it as "independent" and "assertive" but I get you. It's hard. I just don't expect her to do what I want. I focus on enjoying being with her and not worrying that she doesn't say whole words yet.

@Phaedra yeah I mean Google, I never invested in any books because I simply don’t have the space for them and also don’t have the time to read them while I’m studying full time as well as full time parenting🤦🏽‍♀️🥴. But yeah I usually only take on NHS or other official government research because it’s the same place the HV point you to anyway. I don’t have TikTok but wouldn’t take advice from there anyway lol. And yeah I feel the whole journey has been filling my head with negativity from the moment I was moved onto the maternity ward up until now! I am just going to continue to watch him however what I don’t want is for there to be a problem that ideally needs to be seen to earlier rather than later and I just dismiss it and continue on simply because I have shut myself off now. I know he is fine for now and is doing things in his own time, but I more wondered if I’m missing anything that I’m not doing just like the last time.

@Shay I don't actually read much, I use audibooks because I can stick them on while doing chores/driving/naps. Everyone is different but personally I find that kinda stuff reassuring. Also the advice from some has been invaluable. Studying full time while full time parenting sounds absolutely a lot though. Have you not got much support? I personally don't think the NHS or official government advice is always that great. They lean towards quite strict timelines. I personally prefer actual child psychologists/science journalists/anthropologists etc. I find the information more relevant and helpful but that's me. I cannot stand my HV and her advice has been awful so far. Are there any other obvious signs of anything unusual? Do you attend regular playgroups with same age children?

@Phaedra ah fair enough! I wish I could get my uni work in audio format😂🤦🏽‍♀️but yeah I wouldn’t even know where to start with the right books tbh. No I don’t have much help. My ex and I broke up when my son turned 6/7 months because I felt like a single parent in a relationship and just couldn’t take it anymore! Worst part was that I took on more hours of uni than I am currently doing because I had the promise of getting more time to study which didn’t happen so I wasn’t impressed but 🤷🏽‍♀️ my ex sees out son 3 days a week but still goes on like our (my son and i) daily struggles are their struggles too🙄. Yeah I have found the NHS in general haven’t helped much at all! I feel they will sick back and do nothing for so long and then when something happens they want to jump in at the end when it’s almost too long and act like they were always helping from the beginning. My son doesn’t have any other issues at all, he doesn’t do some things that they say he should be doing by now but is fine.

Also we attended a playgroup after the HV told us about me hindering his development if I didn’t take him to one and I absolutely hated it! He was trying to get some adult and children’s attention to interact with him and they just ignored him! I had to sit and play with him and basically helicopter him for an hr and trying to distract him from people ignoring him it was really disheartening! I haven’t taken him back since! I was just so unimpressed by it all!

@Shay I like Sarah Ockwell-Smith, Phillipa Perry, the montessori stuff & hunt, gather, parent personally! I'm sorry about your ex though you're definitely better off without. I find men like that are basically a big child anyway. You're amazing for juggling studying and parenting but also that's like... a lot! Probably too much. Not that you can change it, but go easy on yourself. What's the childcare situation like? Asides from ex I mean. Honestly at this point whatever the heck takes some pressure off you is what you should be doing! Yep they're underfunded and honestly not that helpful. HVs especially seem to have terrible training?? Like mine literally gave loads of rubbish outdated advice. Its not so bad if you have a big support network but if you're going at it alone you actually need that extra support... but nope. I've got to say, I found playgroups definitely help with child development and progress, I do think they are very good for our babies BUT you absolutely have to shop around.

@Shay You get rubbish playgroups that are pure stress. Baby sensory was fab but our babies are too old now. I find the music based ones seem overall better. I've been to loads of bad ones haha. I find Forest School groups are really reliable for being nice feeling! I always interact and play with other children, I can't fathom why anyone would bother going to a playgroup just to be cold and horrible. If you're struggling to do the admin of looking for local groups if you give me your rough area I don't mind searching in my fb groups for you to see if there's anything special.

@Phaedra thanks so much for the Authors, I briefly went through Sarah’s one and they look decent and the books themselves can be found cheap but audio would certainly be better! You know the worst part is that my ex is female, we went on a long journey through clinics to have our son so there was a lot of forethought and planning that went into having him and when it actually got close to the time she decided that was the time to do home improvements and never actually finished them, leaving the place a state I had to fix alone while I had my son to also care for! It was a nightmare and things still are not 100% now. I feel like it for sure it too much to be doing at once but then I don’t really have any other choice now. This year I reduced my hours of study in half and I’m still struggling to balance everything but regardless of anything I am making sure my son comes first because I’ll never forgive myself if I let things slide and he falls behind as a result.

@Shay Omg whaaaat. Somehow it's even more shocking because like... it couldn't have been an accident or rash decision having a child?? I'm so sorry that's really sad! I expect better from women but relationship gaps happen in queer relationship too (tbh I expect better from women but my track history of girlfriends alone should disprove that 😂 proof that love and sexuality Is blind) You honestly sound like you care so much and you're working SO so hard to give your son a good life. Are you on Facebook? I highly recommend joining the fb group The Village (run by Sam Gadsden) its uk-wide and very supportive/helpful. Way better then Google! I'm really lonely where I live (rural as heck) and it really helps having mum friends.

@Phaedra apologies I didn’t get to finish my last reply before I had to rush to clean the flat up before my son woke🤦🏽‍♀️. HVs are underfunded and questionably trained (apparently health visitors use to be midwives before doing this job which shocks me!) but it’s more annoying we are made to go to them and we can’t just opt out! Yeah I think I will try and go to other play groups but I’m finding a lot of them (or other clubs I wanted to take him to) are clashing with his nap so I’m trying to find a way to balance everything out now😬. I tried to get my son into baby sensory and they were always full and you also had to pay for terms which I thought was weird but 🤷🏽‍♀️. As for the people being cold and horrible, I found there was one woman there in particular that seemed to just come to have a chat with the staff. She had 2 daughters she brought and kept telling them she can’t play with them but she is watching 👀 This is one of the women my son was smiling at standing in front of her

@Phaedra and the woman ignored him. She looked at me wondering why I was looking at her so I pointed down to my son and said “he was trying to get your attention by smiling at you!” And she was just like “oh” and continued talking to the woman not even looking at my son! My son tried to interact with one of her daughters and she was ignoring him like he wasn’t there! He kept trying to take her bowl and instead of her saying anything to my son or even looking at him she turned to the worker who said he is only a baby and don’t understand yet🤦🏽‍♀️🥴. I just pulled him away and found him something else outside to play with but we spent the whole time just the two of us doing stuff we do alone at home anyway so it was a proper waste of time.. and I sacrificed a bit of him nap to take him there🙄. It really saddens me to watch my son be excited to be around other kids and adults and he just gets ignored and she smile on his little face fades😞.

@Phaedra I’m not of FB, deleted it at the beginning of covid due to toxicity so I cut off the last bit of connection I had with everyone by doing that🤦🏽‍♀️ I honestly wouldn’t have expected my ex to have been the way she was tbh. I could understand being tired from her napping on a chair when we were in hospital but once you get home and recover a bit you expect to be doing 50/50. She kept telling me because he was breastfed she doesn’t feel she can have him too long because what if he needs milk, what if he cries.. all sorts of nonsense really. I tried every day for 6/7 months to get her to help me more and each time I got a new excuse! When I finally had enough and said I want her out, then she tried doing more but it was already too late, I already started hating her! Months down the line she says she had depression which caused it🙄 I really do care and my son is my only world now and I feel like I really don’t want to fail him like my mum did me!

Also, you live exactly where I’m trying to move to! I have been trying to find somewhere in Cornwall to take my son to visit but everywhere is so expensive and now it’s getting colder the sea is going to be off limits but I think raising him down there would be so much better for both of us and I’m also aiming to do my masters at Plymouth university so would need to be local to there anyway but I’m yet to visit🤦🏽‍♀️. Since I have been so isolated I’m really weary about meeting new people now but I really feel I owe at least that to my son! If you don’t mind I’m going to DM you most likely in the morning?

@Shay that story makes my heart so sad for your son! I actually can't understand. I never ignore other people's children, I want them to find the world a kind place. No wonder you've been so put off though, that's crap. I totally get it, I've been to loads of groups and at least half of them were really not our thing... it is worth persisting because once you find a good one it'll really make his day! Are there any local toddler forest schools or garden clubs? My daughter has such a good time at ours and the mums seem more friendly than average. Ahhh yeah well I don't blame you deleting it! If you can find community somewhere though it will help a lot ❤️ all mummas need other mummas. I'm so sorry about your ex, but also well done you for having firm boundaries and being strong enough to follow through with it. There's no point in a partnership that isn't equal. You are definitely not failing him! Honestly ditch Google and the HV 😂 just enjoy your time together.